self defence gone "too far" ??-Update

[shooter]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 956044.ece

Jail for ‘courageous’ Munir Hussain who beat intruder with cricket batAdam Sherwin

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Munir Hussain, jailed for 30 months
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A businessman who fought off knife-wielding thugs after his family were threatened has been jailed for 30 months.

The case prompted renewed debate over the level of force that house-holders can use against raiders.

Munir Hussain, chairman of the Asian Business Council, was praised by a judge for his “courage” in defending his wife and three children from an attack — but then jailed for the violence of his response. One of his attackers was spared a jail sentence.

The incident occurred when the Hussain family returned from their mosque during Ramadan to find three intruders wearing balaclavas in their home. Hussain was told that he would be killed. His family’s hands were tied behind their backs and they were forced to crawl from room to room.Hussain, 53, made an escape after throwing a coffee table and enlisted his brother Tokeer, 35, in chasing the offenders down the street in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, bringing one of them to the ground.

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What followed was described in Reading Crown Court as self-defence that went too far. Walid Salem, one of the intruders, suffered a permanent brain injury after he was struck with a cricket bat so hard that it broke into three pieces. Neighbours saw several men beating Salem with weapons, including a metal pole.

Munir Hussain is said to feel that he let down his wife, Shaheen Begum, sons Awais, 21, Samad, 15, and 18-year-old daughter Arooj, by failing to defend them against Salem and his gang. Mrs Begum had told the court that she feared the raiders had killed her youngest son. She said: “They were hitting my husband. When I asked them to stop or looked up they started hitting him again. They told us to lie face down and not speak, or they would kill us. It was very terrifying.”

Salem was the only intruder caught after the incident in September last year, but his injuries meant that he was not fit to plead after being charged with false imprisonment. Salem, who has 50 past convictions, was given a two-year supervision order in September this year. He is now in custody awaiting trial for an alleged credit card fraud.

Munir and Tokeer Hussain, described as family men at the heart of the local community, were found guilty of causing grievous bodily harm with intent this year. The prosecution alleged that two other men also took part in the “revenge attack”. Judge John Reddihough gave a 30-month sentence to Munir and jailed Tokeer for 39 months.

Munir Hussain, who trained as an engineer, came to Britain in 1964 and founded a company that employs nine people and with a turnover of £2.4 million. He is a former chairman of the Wycombe Race Equality Council.

Judge Reddihough said that Hussain’s family had been subject to a “serious and wicked offence” and praised the bravery of his teenage son, who escaped to raise the alarm. He also noted the “courage” of Munir Hussain, but said that he carried out a “dreadful, violent attack” on Salem as he lay defenceless.

The judge told them: “If persons were permitted to take the law into their own hands and inflict their own instant and violent punishment on an apprehended offender rather than letting justice take its course, then the rule of law and our system of criminal justice, which are the hallmarks of a civilised society, would collapse.” Michael Wolkind, QC, defending Munir Hussain, promised to appeal.

He said that the case had similarities to that of Tony Martin, jailed in 2000 for shooting dead a teenage burglar. Martin’s murder conviction was reduced on appeal to manslaughter and his sentence to five years. In a statement, the family said: “We are devastated. We hope that justice will be served.”

the burglar, since he's unfit to plead wasnt imprisoned!! he has 52 previous convictions!!

[kanwar76]

UK as a country is gone to dogs

[xl_target]

The judge told them: “If persons were permitted to take the law into their own hands and inflict their own instant and violent punishment on an apprehended offender rather than letting justice take its course, then the rule of law and our system of criminal justice, which are the hallmarks of a civilised society, would collapse.”

I'm sorry to tell you, Judge, but you're a little too late. When you take away a man's right to defend himself, as has steadily been done in the UK, you might as well kiss law and order goodbye.

[The Doc]

I'm sorry to tell you, Judge, but you're a little too late. When you take away a man's right to defend himself, as has steadily been done in the UK, you might as well kiss law and order goodbye.

Well said xl_target !

best,

Rp.

[Sakobav]

This is ridiculous what about when this owner was being attacked by intruders ..let a person with rap sheet walk and dock the responsible citizen..is smoking weed legal in UK especially for Judges? Do they still wear that funny wig?

Then there is another one today - Arrest orders for ex Israeli Foreign minister??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8413234.stm

[xl_target]

Then there is another one today - Arrest orders for ex Israeli Foreign minister??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8413234.stm

You've got to be kidding me!

[timmy]

I'm not sure if I understand the judge correctly: didn't the man defending his house " take the law into their own hands" when the defense was begun? Wasn't the man required to do so when the law and its due process failed to protect his family from these goons?

It may be true, that law enforcement cannot be everywhere, but where was the rule of law and due process when this goon was convicted 50 other times? Waiting for 75, perhaps?

Were I the King, I would demand that all the judges who let this man walk after the 2nd or 3rd offense would have to go to jail and serve before any judicial official could sentence the man who defended his house to any jail time at all.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that the man who defended his house did beat the robber excessively -- the beating would have been more appropriate for the judges who kept letting the goon run loose.

[hvj1]

*

[hamiclar01]

Living in perfidous albion, I am unsurprised. This seems to be a daily event. As for the police, we've seen what they did to de Menezes and Tomlinson. I think they've been taken over and run by the very anti social psychopaths they swore to protect us against.

Is it any surprise that the Brits have re hashed Charles Bronson's "death wish" series as Michael Caine's "Harry Brown", which is proving to be a big hit

[Vikram]

Sounds like the utter failure of the judicial system where a man with fifty convictions is able to walk about notching up the tally.

I can understand where the judge is coming from.Mr Munir Hussain did not stop with defending his family and repelling an attack on them.He also chased the perps and inflicted bodily harm as retribution.I think even in USA it could be a difficult situation to defend,especially from a civil suit.

Where this judge should have engaged his feeble judgement was, he could have given Mr Hussain and his brother a slap on the wrists and given nominal suspended sentence.Both the brothers have no prior criminal records and they are a positive influence in a society they live.By sending them to prison,the judge in his eagerness to preserve the civilisation seemed to have sent a message to criminals that they are safe even if they are caught and convicted before being set loose.This apart from depriving two families of their pillars and their faith in the justice system.

If I may say this,UK justice system may lack a bit of commonsense on a few issues, but still it is relatively corruption free,fair and transparent.

Anand, I have been trying to watch "Harry Brown" for sometime.Like Michael Cain.There was another film called "Outlaw", with Sean Bean,Danny Dyer and Bob Hoskins, based on vigilantism in UK.If you have nothing else to watch.......

Best-
Vikram

[MoA]

In the UK a number of people who assault others are just given a fine. Yet just being present during a murder, and having no direct involvement can mean a life sentence, under the joint enterprise law. Murderers and rapists are free to prey on law abiding citizens while the victims have no right to defend themselves.
The UK is a country gone nuts, and is rapidly becoming the worst possible kind of nanny state. I blame its citizens who will not oppose the idotic policies and continue to live like sheeple.

[Zake]

Don't mind brits, but after watching and reading about the practice of law in UK. That is the last place I will ever wanna end up. In comparison, India suddenly starts to feel like offering more freedom !!

[Vikram]

Don't mind brits, but after watching and reading about the practice of law in UK. That is the last place I will ever wanna end up. In comparison, India suddenly starts to feel like offering more freedom !!

I am not trying to be an apologist for UK's judiciary.But, as I said earlier,cases like these alone do not make-up a system.Everything is relative.On a scale, UK's judiciary would score very high in terms of protection of individual freedoms,rights,lack of corruption,transparency,fairness,speediness and rule of law. These principles may sound simplistic or mere words until the practical aspects are experienced especially if you have had experience of less efficient and corrupt systems.It has it's faults in terms of leniency towards offenders and in it's display of lack of commonsense in cases like above.But, overall, in my sincerely humble opinion, it is quite good.


Best-
Vikram

[m24]

Not to offend anyone, couldn't help but post this comment made by Actor/comedian Robin Williams “In England, if you commit a crime, the police don't have a gun and you don't have a gun. If you commit a crime, the police will say "Stop, or I'll say stop again."

Regards

[Vikram]

Not to offend anyone, couldn't help but post this comment made by Actor/comedian Robin Williams “In England, if you commit a crime, the police don't have a gun and you don't have a gun. If you commit a crime, the police will say "Stop, or I'll say stop again."Regards

LOL.The police here go without firearms,there is rarely a need for them,the guns, and the police look a lot less intimidating.But, should there be a hint of a trouble, the Armed Response Unit gets there quite rapidly.Couple of years ago, right at my street end, Coventry and Leicester football fans gathered for a premeditated bout at local pub.Within minutes there was a helicopter hovering with ARUs on the ground.They got almost all of them,charged and convicted.

Best-
Vikram