Well...what's the OFB upto again?

[OverUnderPump]

Yikes. This is gonna give me nightmares.

cheerio

OUP

[cottage cheese]

Here's a closeup of a 4 year old OFB 9mm belonging to the Assam Rifles. Looks like it was dugup from Bhimbetka!

[ Image ]

Jonah

Well at least this one has its front sights. I've seen all too many which have lost the poorly dovetailed blades.

[Ace_doc]

The 5.56 insas is a good weapon spot on till 500 mts even with a crosswind. it is more accurate and has a one shot kill capacity.the weapon if carefully maintained does not jam or foul even after firing 300 plus rounds.field stripping is easy and fast.yes the fit and finish leave alot to be desired and the mag could carry 30/40 rounds. over all it is a good home brew .

[lazybones]

The Mesolithic artists of Bhimbetka would deny any association with this artifact

Ashok

[cottage cheese]

[penpusher]

The 5.56 insas is a good weapon spot on till 500 mts even with a crosswind.

I would like to meet the person who can throw it that far.The INSAS is a good design let down by shoddy manufacturing.It has almost as many problems as parts.Each rifle will have different issues.

[fantumfan2003]

It seems our infantry weapon manufacturers are averse to learning from mistakes or have very poor memory.
I remember reading in my college days that the IPKF learned to their peril that only single shot mode in their 7.62 SLR (which was a copy of the full auto capable FN-FAL) was woefully inadequate and the factories were sent an SOS to convert some SLRs to 3 shot bursts. Don't know if that materialised but do know our special forces in the IPKF took a liking for captured AKs which have a full auto mode. That the INSAS's three round burst inadequacy surfaced in Kargil shows a lesson not learned. I think it might also be our Army doctrine thing about not letting soldiers use full auto, high capacity infantry weapons.

M.

-- Sat Apr 11, 2009 20:44 --

There were some reports that the 3000 Israeli Tavors imported had problems in the field and were returned for modifications. Whats this with our SF blundering ? there is no blundering, coz the AKs rule in that fraternity. Its their weapon of choice.

The best 5.56 infantry weapon is the HK G36. A carbine version of the G36 has been test fired with 25000 rounds.
The SAS dumped their own SA-80 in favour of the G36 and now even british police use them.

M.

penpusher, the AUG isn`t a weapon - it`s pornography !

good one!

while our SF has been blundering around (till the recent decision on the Tavor) with 'sophisticated and lethal' AKs! I'd still regard the Tavor with some mild discomfort because it's not a very battle proven rifle. No doubt its seen limited use by the IDF...but little else. Besides, very technically speaking, it's pretty cluttered in construction in comparison to the AUG... a potential source of problems for a military rifle.... with such close involvement with Austrian arms manufacturers, Glock, Steyr too(SSG69)... I was wondering how difficult it would have been to grab the AUG.

As usual... with the Tavor, I smell dirty money.

[penpusher]

Pakistan,which is on the verge of bankruptcy,can afford to arm its troops with license made copies of H&K rifles,sub-machine guns and machine guns while India that claims to be an emerging economic power can't afford to arm it's front line troops with automatic rifles.

Talking of IPKF, follow this link

http://www.lankalibrary.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3759

[mundaire]

Pakistan,which is on the verge of bankruptcy,can afford to arm its troops with license made copies of H&K rifles,sub-machine guns and machine guns while India that claims to be an emerging economic power can't afford to arm it's front line troops with automatic rifles.

Talking of IPKF, follow this link

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.lankalibrary.com/phpBB/viewt ... ?t=3759</a><!-- m -->

It is not a matter of being able to afford, as everyone knows the real power behind the throne in Pakistan is the military and they usually want and get the best they can buy... while in India the neta-babu combine rules the roost, which would be OK if they were not so corrupt (by and large) and would rather sacrifice the lives of our men in green to line their their own pockets with a few greenbacks!

[fantumfan2003]

Probably explains the netas approving FN2000 and P90 for the SPG which protects them, and in all fairness will never fire them in anger and allowing non rated stuff like Tavor and INSAS for the army which makes contact with the enemy daily.

M.

It is not a matter of being able to afford, as everyone knows the real power behind the throne in Pakistan is the military and they usually want and get the best they can buy... while in India the neta-babu combine rules the roost, which would be OK if they were not so corrupt (by and large) and would rather sacrifice the lives of our men in green to line their their own pockets with a few greenbacks!

-- Sat Apr 11, 2009 22:55 --

Penpusher

Thanks for making my day. Finally have scanty details of the enormously successful IMSF Jaffna raid which is still shrouded in secrecy (wonder why).

Even this article spots holes in our political leadership.

M.

Talking of IPKF, follow this link

http://www.lankalibrary.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3759

[guncrazy]

INSAS is a FA weapon, 93 it came to Army for trials, the Army had not approved it as it had lot of problems, it was diplomaticaly shoved, given to Nepal the Nepalese soilders have shown their displeasure but to be friends with us they have to pay the price, at present 2009 it is still under modification. India is the only country where homeguard and Army use same weapon, the pistol butt is manufactured by neel kamal plastics ltd,now if they come out with auto mode it will take another 20 years so join the IOF safe bet in the time of recession and for GOD sake plzz don't show us this steyr- manliccher photo's I feel like bheekhmanga JAI HIND KI SENA

[17H]

There are always lot of politics involved in weapons purchases for the military. Not to speak of India, even Americans routinely thrust unproven weponary on their soldiers, only later they are modified to take care of the shortcomings. Most of the waeponary is actually developed using lots of simulations, which may actually be at variance with the field conditions. It happens everywhere, field requirements change and militaries make changes as per evolving operational doctrine. Only thing is that in India we take enormous amount of time validating a doctrine and developing weapons for it, by that time we are confronted with new challenges.

INSAS was a OK, value for money design for massed infnatry roles, where supply lines are far behind and there is need to conserve ammunition. In Counter insurgency and other relatively 'neighbourhood' operations, where ammunition is only a drive away, this does not matter.

Anyway at the end of the day different designs are different philosophies working. TAR 21 is not a bad weapon I hear. INSAS is now fairly reliable and accurate though still not automatic. Nothing beats the AK47 at the ranges at which present conflicts take place. There are always better rifles for some specailised role at some price. At the end of the day its all about the man behind the weapon.

Thankfully we are issueing ballistic protection to our men now.

[goodboy_mentor]

.

[guncrazy]

(INSAS was a OK, value for money design for massed infnatry roles, where supply lines are far behind and there is need to conserve ammunition. In Counter insurgency and other relatively 'neighbourhood' operations, where ammunition is only a drive away, this does not matter.)
Is the weapon meant for single shot or for target practice, I am not able to understand 6000 Rs check OFB price for international market and we bought Romanian Ak-47 for 5000Rs and how far is the supply lines by the way what is your 1st line 2nd line 3rd line and even the practice ammo doing

[cottage cheese]

Is the weapon meant for single shot or for target practice, I am not able to understand 6000 Rs check OFB price for international market and we bought Romanian Ak-47 for 5000Rs and how far is the supply lines by the way what is your 1st line 2nd line 3rd line and even the practice ammo doing

...strange as it might seem the batch of Romanian MPiKMs was primarily procured mostly for the then new Rashtrya Rifles. The consignment amounted to 1,80,000 rifles (!) and worked out to $65 a piece....meaning each rifle came with three magazines, maintainence kit, Nylon sling, canvas/nylon magazine pouch, and a multi-purpose bayonet for that price!
You can work out how much from the exchange rates at that time...

In contrast the INSAS started off optimistically with a proposed price of Rs.10,000 per piece for internal "consumption"- I happened to read this in early OFB literature(1990's)... as I hear, when it finally materialized, the enormous overheads put its pricing substantially higher. The Army/Defence forces, for sake of 'national' reasons, get it at a very, very subsidized rate (the OFB claims- no profit). I can suppose the resulting profit burden is transmitted to other users. I believe the price in this case is above Rs.20,000 each.

The last time I bothered to know, the SLR(With significantly more expensive manufacturing requirements) cost about Rs.23,000 per piece. The INSAS is designed for manufacturing processes (very much akin to the AKM) that are significantly less expensive. That the price tag being more or less the same with an SLR speaks volumes of the inefficiency and inadequacy of the manufacturing and management body.