Choosing right handgun is difficult.

[thebrowningeffect]

Thanks Xl you are a gentleman. I ill go for .380 just need to find a right pistol for me.
Thanks

[target shooter]

Hi TheBrowningeffect ,
Good you settled for .38 spl. Now try repeated dry run. Draw the fire arm cock it and aim the imaginary target and pull the trigger. i said dry ie without a live round. see hw much time you take. Repeat such an act may be 50 times a day for 7 to 10 days. Then go to the range along with a friend who is well verse with handling handguns. Remember handguns are dangerous to the user too. As the barrel is short little change in angle at wrist will make big difference as to where the projectile will hit. Remember what happened to the top navy officer few months back.
The handgun should be an extension of your hand.
As someone had rightly pointed out in one of the thread, a man with a handgun can do very little IF some ruffian(s) comes with an order to finish you off. By the time you draw the gun and rack it and aim-shoot the bug*3r, he would have already discharged three rounds and he won't miss as such incidence are always at a point blank range.
And you are not as trained to kill as Reymond Devis.
Am not discouraging you bro, most people buy handgun just for the hack of it but in your case i can see a reason. People who fires 30 to 40 rounds every 1 or 2 months find it difficult to discharged a round in real scenario in those very crucial few seconds. Plus the other chap is already in a ready mode with a round in the chamber and hammer down.
Pl reread what i have opined and it should make you keep the bodyguards.

Reg,
ts

[thebrowningeffect]

Dear Target shooter,
Thanks so much for your kind advise. I will start practicing the day I purchase my gun. Is it not difficult to purchase .380 cartridge? Can u suggest me any reliable brand? I am so grateful to all the IFGians for their suggestions.

[target shooter]

Dear Target shooter,
Thanks so much for your kind advise. I will start practicing the day I purchase my gun. Is it not difficult to purchase .380 cartridge? Can u suggest me any reliable brand? I am so grateful to all the IFGians for their suggestions.

D/TBE,
For this you ask winni d poo, Cottage Cheese and Katana they are among the some of the resourceful people in this forum.


Cheers buddy,
TS

[timmy]

the browning effect:

I would like to amplify some of the comments here with my own, but first I would like to back up and mention a few basics that have been alluded to as well.

We here at IFG support the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (RKBA). One of the most powerful arguments that we have here is this:

Guns don't kill people, people kill people

If you think about this and accept it, then logically, you will agree with this statement:

"Guns don't protect people, people protect people."

When I say this, you will note that a gun can be a powerful TOOL that you can use to protect yourself, but it can also be used against you!

Consider: "I keep a gun on the night stand next to my bed."

Well, I know there are burglars who can sneak into a house while people are sleeping, and they could come in and take that gun. They could either then use it to commit other crimes, or shoot the gun owner and his wife sleeping in bed. In this case, the GUN isn't protecting or shooting the owner: Either the owner is protecting himself (in this case, by using the gun) or the gun is being used by the goon to shoot the owner.

My point here is this: YOU need to think about taking the step to use a gun to protect yourself, and take responsibility in this matter. I will come back to this in a moment.

Now, let me mention something else: Bodyguards could apply in one of three ways:

1. You are dealing with petty criminals. They see the body guards and stay away from you and seek easier pickings.

2. More organized criminals see you parading about with armed body guards and figure you have something of value to protect. They lay in wait and snipe your body guards and you to steal what you are announcing that you have.

3. You could be facing both at the same time.

This, too, is something to think about, although the comment about the guards using shotguns rather than rifles as a very good observation and something to consider.

Now, returning to my first set of comments, if you are going to use a gun to protect yourself, then there are to things you must consider:

1. You are proficient in the use of the gun. The primary thing required for this is practice.

2. The gun will reliably go BANG when you pull the trigger.

So, if you are going to need to practice, you will need a source of ammunition and a place to practice that will allow you to become proficient in the gun's use. So the first consideration for choosing your gun is a supply of ammunition.

The first consideration then, isn't the power of the cartridge the gun is chambered for. It is the cartridge you can effectively use against an attacker. To use and extreme example, if you can get lots of .22 ammunition for one gun, and 6 rounds of .45 ACO or .38 Special for another, take the .22.

Massad Ayoob, noted firearms expert, once quoted a city policeman who preferred his snub nosed .38 to the more popularly used .45, saying "My shootin' straight with my .38 beats him givin' me jive with his .45."

If you thing that by having a gun and waving it in a criminal's face, you will be protecting yourself, you are just kidding yourself. If you are truly going to protect yourself, you must be able to use the gun and be able to use it in a way that deters a criminal, even to the point of using the gun. (You need to think about this and be sure you are with me, because you cannot afford to think about it if the time comes to have to use it.)

With this said, my opinion is:

Get the best cartridge you can master -- this requires both the supply of ammunition and the ability to use the gun. For example, some people simply don't shoot a .45 ACP well. It is a shame that some misguided people try to act manly about these sorts of things -- ignore that kind of stuff. Shoot a few guns if you can and truly assess what you can shoot.

So, what type of gun? Well, I think it hard to dispute that a modern double action automatic with a large capacity magazine will, in most cases, be superior to anything else. These would be Glocks and Sigs and the like. You may not be able to get one of these in India because of supply and availability, expense, or even issues of PB/NPB.

Your second choice would be a good double action revolver. I have never handled an IOF .32. I have heard members here question the quality of these guns. Remember, it MUST go bang when you pull the trigger. You must be able to have absolute trust in the gun. So if an IOF .32 won't meet your needs, you will either have to have it worked over by a competent gunsmith or look for a GOOD used S&W, Colt, Taurus, or other quality double action.

Finally, you may be able to use a QUALITY single action automatic. The Colt 1911 .45 ACP or 9MM Browning Hi Power would be examples of these. You can carry a 1911 cocked and locked, where you will have to thumb the safety off before the gun is ready to fire. Being able to master this is going to take more practice than using the first two types.

DO NOT use a single action automatic that is hammerless, or one that cannot safely carry a round in the chamber, like the Tokarev TT33 or Colt .32 ACP or .380 Pocket autos. The only safe way to use these is to carry them with the chamber empty, which means you must work the slide to ready the weapon. This is not going to be effective, I think, in your case.

Given all of this, if you can find a double action auto, all well and fine. I suspect that in most cases, finding a good snub nosed double action revolver in .38 Special or .32 S&W would be a reasonable goal to aim for (no pun intended). The .38 would be preferable due to its greater power, but again, you should go for the one that will allow you to find plenty of ammunition to practice with. If you become proficient in its use, either will get the job done for you much better than any other kind of gun that you have only had the opportunity to shoot once or twice.

In some ways, a double action revolver is perhaps more reliable than an automatic. This is because automatics can jam. If all is well with the automatic, it will not jam, and a worn revolver is not a good choice at all. Revolvers have a lot of little parts that can wear and cause them to be unreliable. Therefore, I advise that the revolver you choose MUST be in good shape, especially if used. The main thing with an automatic that can go wrong is feeding and jams, which is often caused by a weak magazine spring.

A gun can be an effective tool if you know how to use it and if you are ready. But remember, the gun doesn't kill and it doesn't protect: YOU do that. The gun can help, but it isn't alive, YOU are. YOU have to take the responsibility of deciding to carry the weapon and all this entails, and to practice with it.

Many years ago, I worked in a bad area of town on the late shift. One fellow questioned my carrying a gun. He said, "Are you going to kill someone just because they want to rob you for a quarter dollar?" My thought was that, when I was being robbed, I would not be able to tell if all the robber wanted to do was to rob me of a quarter, rather than to harm or kill me. By choosing to stop me and commit a crime, he was taking the responsibility for the consequences.

But I had to take the responsibility for making this decision and what might happen, including jail for me, if I carried through with my decision. I think I was ready to do this. The man who asked me the question would always be the wrong kind of person to carry a gun for protection, however.

So this is my advice. You think all of this through and figure out what is the best course of action. Be sure to ask more questions here if you have them, for as you see, we are all ready to lend you some advice that may help you decide what you want to do.

[thebrowningeffect]

Dear Tim,
Let me first say Thank you for the knowledge and experiences you shared with me. It must have taken time to read all the posts on this topic. Appreciate it. It seems you know everything about the arms. Tim, the reason I want to carry a licensed gun because it will give me a sense of security as I visit places where people are not that friendly. Let me tell you that I have not fired any arm other than an airgun. So i will make sure I do lot of practice with the gun. How about walther ppk .380 ? I have read in one of the comments that the .380 ammunition is easily available and is cheaper than .32 acp. Are cz's any good? CZ 83, Barreta or colt?

Kindly suggest
Regards

[38 spl]

Hi browningeffect,

Where in UP r u. If you dont have any personal issues with anyone there in Up then I wud suggest you to go for 380 pis. I too have bodyguards as me & ma family have some issues with some ppl back in western UP & also my family is from a political party. So one has to be always carefull. I got .38 spl, 30 pistol. 30 springfield rif and a 12 shotgun on ma licence and other calibers i have in ma family r .455 , 30 carbine & few rifles but i always preffer to carry a .38 spl revolver then a pistol. I trust more on Rev then a pistol.

[goodboy_mentor]

From a self-defence only point of view, I would have retained the bodyguards despite the awkwardness, and armed them with shotguns instead of rifles.

Bodyguard armed with any good firearm which he is proficient in its use, to quickly fire and hit the target is good enough. It includes .315 rifle and shotguns. I would have preferred to keep those bodyguards armed with .315 rifles as they are or with pump action shotguns instead of SBBL/DBBL shotguns. Reason: The only safe SBBL/DBBL shotgun is an unloaded one. It is dangerous to carry around SBBL/DBBL shotguns in loaded condition. The safety lock mechanism in these shotguns is not reliable like hammer block/transfer bar in handguns. It only locks the trigger but does not lock the firing pin from getting accidentally released even under very slight shock if sear is faulty or worn out. If bodyguards carry SBBL/DBBL shotguns unloaded, it will take time to load them, release the safety lock and then fire.

Finally, and this can be controvertial, if there ever is a shot or shots fired, the shotgun pellets lose energy much faster than a bullet fired from a rifle, making the situation relatively safe for innocent bystanders, thus possibly saving you from litigation and guilt.

Indian Penal Code Sections 96 to 106 define the Rights of Private Defense. As per Section 106 of IPC:

Right of private defence against deadly assault when there is risk of harm to innocent person

If in the exercise of the right of private defence against an assault which reasonably causes the apprehension of death, the defender be so situated that he cannot effectually exercise that right without risk of harm to an innocent person his right or private defence extends to the running of that risk.
Source: http://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/indian ... e/S106.htm

[thebrowningeffect]

Hi 38 spl Thanks for the reply. I have few quarries in Bundelkhand region. I am planning to buy a .380 pistol. How about the availability of .380 cartridges?

[Subal das]

Hi 38 spl Thanks for the reply. I have few quarries in Bundelkhand region. I am planning to buy a .380 pistol. How about the availability of .380 cartridges?

pistol more complicated to maintain. if you do not have much experience with guns you will do much better with revolver. m2c

[eljefe]

keep the 2 BG, one with 315, one with a hockey stick handled 12 bore double barrel
AND
get yourself a 357 Magnum revolver.
You can get 357 and 38 spl ammo and practice enough

[vinay singh]

hey winnie ,the ammo for .380 is not freely available and definately not cheaper than imported .32 ammo. here i have been buying .380 at 350 recently, three months back it was 300. the cost for imported ,32 ammo is abt 240 i believe. as for the choice of a pistol i would also recommend .380...and i wanted to make it a point here for a long time ,when someone is ready to buy a weapon for 7 lacs ,would he really care for buying ammo at at 250/ or 350/ for that matter ,considering his annual quota is going to be a meagre 25 bullets.

[captrakshitsharma]

Vinay my dear friend what happens is that one does not mind in the initial expense of buying / investing in the weapon but if u seriously want to get conversant with it and shoot well you will need practice which means ammo. Now when you shoot regularly first thing you will do is get your ammo quota increased.It is at this point that the cost of ammo starts pinching you and shooting as a sport and hobby starts hurting people's wallets and budget .After a while you start feeling every time you go to the range your wallet gets lighter by a few big one... people get discouraged. Not good for the shooter or for the sport or even for the not so serious plinking types who just wants to keep his skills sharp and be accurate with his gun in a self defense scenario.
I too paid some good money for the weapon i have but to be honest if i want to shoot only imported ammo on a regular basis it hurts and i have refrained from using indian ammo but am seriously thinking of using KF ammo in my gun for practice and carry Magtech and S&B for carrying/self defense.
Point is one needs to shoot and shoot in good numbers and the cost of ammo will matter how much you shoot. That is why the 12ga, .22 and .32 remain the favorites in india and .22 rifles command the highest prices in the world for the class of weapon they are.

[Priyan]

.357 would be good as .380 Auto is widely considered to have insufficient stopping power but I think only revolvers are chambered for .357 Magnum. There are few Desert Eagles Chambered for .357 Magnum but they would cost a fortune.

I still don't understand the point of PB and NPB thing, People in USA are firing NATO ammo for years without any major threat to the people or the government.

[Subal das]

during Magpul training for pistol in US they shot 750 rounds - PER DAY