Indians For Guns

Hi everyone ,

Today early morning I came across a news on Ajj Tak news channel where they were showing a jeweler from Agra being shot by robbers and he tried to defend himself with his pistol , but it misfired ,he again tried to cork it and again it misfired . He was brutally murdered at point blank range . Entire video was recorded by a ccd camera. And one thing which I have decided after seeing that video that I will never buy a pistol ever in my life . Neither Indian or imported . It was horrifying . Why do we keep a weapon , just to defend ourselves. But what happens when the entire purpose be self defense is defeated . That poor jeweler couldn't do anything . Here it is not the question of weather it is an imported pistol or an Indian . The reality is the that they are not as reliable as a revolver.

Prabhdeep Singh Grewal

i agree grewal that revolver are more reliable but it does not mean that all pistols will misfire or cock at the wrong time .. may be it is due to bad upkeep of the arm .. anything in life can go wrong ...do not have preconceived notion about anything in life..

It's not about rev vs pistol....but rather how well you maintain your fire arm,how confortable you are with it and most importantly how you react in a real time situation...

I have seen revolvers jam after firing a couple of IOF rounds...thanks to the quality of the ammo....if you folks carry revs then I would advise you to load only imported ammo for SD.....and yes practice a lot with IOF ammo so that in case you are stuck in a situation atleast you get the bloke before he gets you....hope that never happens.

grewal wrote:Hi everyone ,

Today early morning I came across a news on Ajj Tak news channel where they were showing a jeweler from Agra being shot by robbers and he tried to defend himself with his pistol , but it misfired ,he again tried to cork it and again it misfired . He was brutally murdered at point blank range . Entire video was recorded by a ccd camera. And one thing which I have decided after seeing that video that I will never buy a pistol ever in my life . Neither Indian or imported . It was horrifying . Why do we keep a weapon , just to defend ourselves. But what happens when the entire purpose be self defense is defeated . That poor jeweler couldn't do anything . Here it is not the question of weather it is an imported pistol or an Indian . The reality is the that they are not as reliable as a revolver.

Prabhdeep Singh Grewal

he he, no wonder why phantom keeps two

here is cctv footage:-

[youtube][/youtube]

It appears that the victim fired atleast two shots,

regards,
tingriman

The vast majority of gun owners in India never bother to ensure that the ammo that they have is fresh and functions well in the handgun that they have.Nor are they comfortable firing it.It may be nothing to do with the pistol,might be old ammo.

My condolences to the family and I hope that the police catch the killers.Seems to be a professional hit.

I watched it multiple times and I cannot make out if he managed to pull of a shot.Unlike the killers' guns,his' emitted no smoke or flash.He did try to work the slide a couple of times.Does look like a professional hit.

Absolutely agree with,Winnie.Quality and age of the ammunition is one vastly neglected aspect of self-defence in India.

Best-
Vikram

I personally have shot ammo from WW1 and WW2 in pistols that are mantained correctly. Given a choice between a pistol and revolver, I will pick the capacity of the pistol. Maintenance, practice and familarity with a weapon are key.
I could give a novice a .44 Mag and they will miss with it; while someone with a well mantained and regular practise with a P 22 would be more lethal.
You ahve to know your weapon, and it should ideally be an extension of you. That being said, your handgun is to enable you to get to your long gun.

I watched the video several times and I did not see his gun fire even once. I might be wrong there.
Morever, I think his attackers only advanced towards him after they were sure that his pistol would not fire.

Unfortunately, most people think that owning a gun is like having a magic talisman against harm. Not true, due to the fact that most people lose their fine motor skills when in life threatening situations.
The only defense against this is to practice, practice and then practice again. I know that in India that can be difficult because of the lack of ammo available to most people.
However, as MoA says, your weapon should be an extension of yourself. If you draw the weapon, present it properly aimed at your target and pull the trigger and do this repeatedly till it becomes second nature, you should be able to do it properly under stress.
You don't need ammo for this, you are just building the muscle memory to perform the action. Let's put it this way, owning that pistol is the first step. Now you have to learn how to use it. If you don't have the time or the inclination to practice with your weapon and get familiar with it, just ask your self "how much is my life worth to me and my family"?

You will also need to practice weapon clearing procedures to deal with faulty ammo or a faulty weapon or just plain old human error. Is your weapon gong to fire when you need it? How will you know that if you don't shoot it a few times. The time to discover that your weapon has a problem is in practice and not when you're using it to defend yourself. If you take the case of Lance Thomas, a man who was in a very similar situation to the shop keeper who was killed, you will see that there were several things that he did right. He worked out and he trained with his firearms till he was proficient with them. The amazing thing about Lance Thomas was that he did it repeatedly and he triumphed each time.

[youtube][/youtube]

pistols need to be maintained on regular bases. like most arms owner in India i am sure it was in perfect maintained and oiled condition. otherwise pistol are first choice and revolvers as a back up.

in the clip the man cocked twice the pistol, the first time he cocked it was not a smooth firm action. thus the feed may not have been cycled completely.

sadly
it shows that we all need to regular maintain and practice with our firearms.

Condolences to the family, this brave gentlemen did stand up, duked it out unlike others..sadly it was the last stand. So much for law and order situation.
Agree with everyone's assessment goes down to maintenance, ammo and practice. My personal experience in India was quite appalling - Glock pistol using fresh IOF ammo on range - every other bullet jammed. Another factor in India is never try to advertise the ccw gun..perpetrators come prepared always better to adhere to 'Carry big stick and walk softly'

ngrewal
agree with what has been said.

those who relay on arms for self defense should take the best in buying (if you can afford it) but should at least always buy the best ammo and not the KF type. even IOF pistol will work, ammo can be the weak link along side training and maintenance.

Saw vid many times, I think its case of lack of practice and may be problem with the pistol/ammo. He tried to rack the slide two times, fired and missed.

May his soul R.I.P

-Inder

Lance guy is amazing. It goes to show to u need to mentally strong too. he overcame it not 1-2 but 3 times.
Then training, In US he was able to train himself with Ammo easily available.
Here i remember few years back UP police started giving license to shop keepers in Lucknow and it was that they would be giving training. What is the training, firing 20 rounds on a wall
So does it any way train them for anything, nothing.

Also here, it seems it was revenge killing. I saw the same video on youtube and there is comment by a guy who says so

The Lesson learnt from this is - Use one brand of Ammo (that works) - stick to it - train / practice with that and ensure that your weapon is well maintained and fully functional at all times.
The weapons should be well oiled and the user should be aware of its functions / features and technical knowhow.
A situation like this could have been easily avoidable if the above was followed.
/s/