Smith & Wesson 327

[timmy]

Surely, sir, but I hasten to say that this board is astonishingly wealthy, regarding a wide range of expertise in firearms. I'm sure they would all be willing to lend a helping hand and assist you in any way you might need. Ask away whenever you wish!

[xl_target]

Surely, sir, but I hasten to say that this board is astonishingly wealthy, regarding a wide range of expertise in firearms. I'm sure they would all be willing to lend a helping hand and assist you in any way you might need. Ask away whenever you wish!

As Tim puts it, there are some amazingly knowledgeable people on this board.
You want to talk long range precision shooting, you can ask MOA or Baljit.
You want to talk about hunting, you can talk to Shooter, Karagie Sardar, Safarigent, Prashantsingh, Haji, Baljit, etc.
You want to talk about air rifles, there's Briha and Fantumfan, etc.
You want to talk handguns, there Timmy, etc.
You want to talk about self defence, there Yogi, etc.
Any type of gun, there's Two Rivers, etc.
If the subject has anything to do with guns, bows or knives and using them, there is someone on here who can help you.

It is a unique resource that is available to you, all of you.

For those not mentioned here, please don't think that I think any less of you and your knowledge.
There are just so many of you who are so knowledgeable that I can't think of everyone right now.

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

OK, don't forget that during WWI both Smith & Wesson and Colt produced 45ACP Revolvers for the US Army.

WWI was a very messy trench war.

AFAIK I really haven't heard much about those guns having problems in the mud. I could be worng, but, there is

nothing or much to suggest they had major problems.

Having competed in IPSC with a M-57 41 magnum 4" reolver, I can honestly say, I never had any ammunition problems with

my reloads. Honestly, the 41 mag is very forgiving on cases when you reload. I have gotten over 50 reloads on many cases.

These are Target loads, NOT magnum loads. With full magnum loads, I rarely get more than 12 reloads before getting split necks.

The only 2 things that I had problems with were getting grains of flake powder under the ejecter star causing dificulty in closeing the cylinder.

The other is not ejecting the cases Smartly and getting one stuck under the ejecter star. Both are the main problems I and others had

when competing with a revolver.

Guys with 45 1911s had much more problems due to different reasons.

Over all, I found the revolver to be much more reliable.

BTW, at 900 fps, a 210 gr hard cast bullet out of a 4" M-57 or M-58 has More knock down power than a 200 gr 45 acp semi wadcutter.

If you want Blast and uncontrollability, you should try shooting this gun, a S & W Model 329PD



Lightweight same ass the 327. I got it to carry in Alaska Bear country. It is for SALE.

After firing it once with my 44spl Target loads and finding it Very Painful, I never shot 44 magnums out of it.

If ever I go back to Alaska and go fishing, I'm carrying my M-58 4" all steel 41 magnum, in spite of the weight penalty.

I can shoot that quickly with Full Magnum loads faster than my friend can shoot his all steel 4" M-29.

Honestly, not having shot the 327, I would think it would be Extremely Blasty with Any magnum load.

This is a M-65 LadySmith which I use in NRA Basic Handgun class.



It is equipped with Crimson Trace laser grips.

It is great with any 38 spl load. It gets barky with 125 gr 357 mag loads and defineately Blasty and harder to control with 158 gr magnums.

Generally speaking it is popular with women shooting 38 spls and light 357 magnum loads.

[Raptor]

Surely, sir, but I hasten to say that this board is astonishingly wealthy, regarding a wide range of expertise in firearms. I'm sure they would all be willing to lend a helping hand and assist you in any way you might need. Ask away whenever you wish!

that is as it may be...but you see I consider myself to be a strange breed. Feel free to compare me with an elephant if you will, sir..although my physical dimensions are somewhat lacking in terms of the present metaphor. What I mean to say is...I don't have any problems forgetting insults but it's my personal quirk to never forget a kindness. And you sir took the time out and made an active effort to educate someone you have not even met and probably never will. Therefore ....when the time comes I will find you again if only to pester you further with myconcerns/questions/views etc. So once again thank you in advance.

[timmy]

OK, don't forget that during WWI both Smith & Wesson and Colt produced 45ACP Revolvers for the US Army.

Quite true, but this was a reflection of the unpreparedness of the US Military for war, not the suitability of a revolver for trench warfare. You can read about the tests of revolvers in the results of the 1907 tests I posted above, where what became the 1911 pistol was selected.

A similar situation also existed with rifles: the military had selected the Springfield M1903 as the standard military rifle, but when the USA entered WW1, there were not nearly enough rifles to equip the million man army the USA intended to send to Europe. The US authorities turned to arsenals at Winchester, Remington, and Eddystone to produce over 2 million 1917 rifles, which outnumbered Springfield 1903s in WW1.

In both cases, that of handguns and that of rifles, what the US forces were equipped with is not a reflection of what was best or what was selected, but a result of what could be produced quickly, so the US Army could get into the battle on the Western Front.

Remember that the USA, the cradle of flight, fielded no aircraft in combat in WW1, and that our main field gun was the French M1897 75mm gun. Even though the USA had the genius of John Browning, many troops were equipped with an inferior French machine gun. The USA was totally unprepared for war, which was reflected by the weapons that were fielded in that conflict.

[BowMan]

in a thread about a snub nosed revolver, and that the chief rationale behind such a weapon is concealability?

Ok timmy so lets talk about concealability. I am sure you will agree that dimensions of a weapon has direct bearing on concealability and Vice Versa.

Now I have put together some simple data which could be interesting;

Capture.JPG

You can straightaway observe the only clear advantage the Glock has over the Smith Wesson M&P revolver (Model 10) is in terms of weight. This is obviously because of the Glock's polymer frame vs all steel construction of a revolver. Now consider if we substitute the Glock for a modern 1911 clone which will typically weighs in at about 1100-1200 grams (the S&W version is 1148.2 g to be precise).

Do you really think 0.84 inches shorter Glock 17 (compared to S&W M&P) or 0.4 inches shorter Glock 26 (compared to a J frame) makes a big difference towards a more concealable weapon?

[timmy]

Look BowMan, you re not talking to someone who is into the theories of this stuff! Like I said, put what you want to compare on the table and then stuff them into your waistband, and the issues become obvious. My Colt Detective Special is about the same size as my 1911, in that it would fit in about the same size box, but it is a lot thicker due to the cylinder, compared to the 1911s slab sides. The Detective Special also has different angles -- don't bother with tables -- CARRY the things and see for yourself! Your table is fine, but it doesn't address the shape and thickness of the weapons, nor (more importantly, IMO), the shape. And there is no way that the 38 Spl is equal to a 9mm in the comparison you cite.

BTW, of my stuff, the little CZ50 (32 ACP - like a Walther PPK, so one could also get a PPK in 380 ACP, roughly equal to 38 Spl in a snubby barrel) is absolutely minuscule. I often carry it in a small camera bag about the size of a sandwich, but a little thicker -- with the camera inside, as well.

It is true that a S&W Chief is thinner than my Detective Special, since the cylinder only has 5 rounds. Carry what you want, but a revolver is simply a more awkward shape than a pistol. This is inherent to the design and there's no getting around it.

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

A lot depends on a person's body shape and size.

Not to mention clothing styles.

I've been in company of a bigger guy than me who was carrying Concealed on his person a Smith N frame

4 inch 357 Model 27. Couldn't tell he had it.

If my shorts didn't fall down, I can slip a 3" M-65 357 Ladysmith with CTC lazer grip in my pocket

In Alaska, when I went fishing in the summer, I was able to carry concealed my 41 magnum Model 657 with 6"

barrel in a shoulder rig. The guide we were with never knew until I showed it to him.

I wouldn't worry about size of the gun. I care more about bullet size and weight. Bigger is Better.

If you try hard enough, anything can be carried concealed.

[timmy]

? OK then, whatever.

I'm 6 feet an 250 lbs. I guess I will get rid of my handguns and switch to my SKS Paratrooper as a carry gun.

As they say, if it can be imagined, it can be done.

I have now learned my lesson and will throw my lousy semiautos in the rubbish, and faithfully worship at the shrine of revolvers.

[Raptor]

? OK then, whatever.

I'm 6 feet an 250 lbs. I guess I will get rid of my handguns and switch to my SKS Paratrooper as a carry gun.

As they say, if it can be imagined, it can be done.

I have now learned my lesson and will throw my lousy semiautos in the rubbish, and faithfully worship at the shrine of revolvers.

sir timmy, please don't ...there is no need for you to throw your semi auto away when you can give them to me!


When it comes to guns my theory is very simple.
It's better the devil you know than the one you don't! I know, for example, the operating procedure for the 1911 yet i have never fired one. Now an Inglis 1A , i have...so all the specs apart ,if i get the oppurtunity to pick
either of the two i will obviously pick the Inglis. my choice for a firearm will be based strictly on which one i know to handle safely. Beyond that, i would say, the question is academic, now i came to this post with a preconcieved liking for the revolver, simply because of my experiences with one far exceeds my expertise with a pistol. However after a few posts by you i have to concede that geographically speaking although i may be forced to buy a revolver in theory it would be better to arm myself with a SIG or a P38. By the way I absolutely hate the 'polymer blends' they may be lightweight but those are not a 'man's gun!' now some of you might want my head on a platter for that comment, but there it is...another prediliction..!

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

Both the Wife and I Prefer metal framed guns.

But, I confess that I do have a 40 cal Beretta PX4 loaded with laser or light depending on

how I feel when I take it out. Not my favorite gun, but, IF I have to use it for self defense and some one

gets shot, I don't mind loosing it to the police for however long it takes for the shooting investigation

to be done. Don't want to risk loosing one of my "better" revolvers or semi autos.

Having said that, I do have several revolvers about the home that I got cheaply that the police can hang

on to until they're thru investigating. Today, finding an under $300 used Smith police trade in is

getting much harder to find as many shooters are discovering that police trade-ins have holster wear

and not too much actual shooting. Carried a lot and rarely shot.

Best thing about a revolver is that it can be stored loaded for long periods of time.

A semi can't really be left for long periods without my worrying about magazine spring tension.

I will always have that nagging doubt of it weakening.

[Raptor]

Aloha,

Both the Wife and I Prefer metal framed guns.

But, I confess that I do have a 40 cal Beretta PX4 loaded with laser or light depending on

how I feel when I take it out. Not my favorite gun, but, IF I have to use it for self defense and some one

gets shot, I don't mind loosing it to the police for however long it takes for the shooting investigation

to be done. Don't want to risk loosing one of my "better" revolvers or semi autos.

Having said that, I do have several revolvers about the home that I got cheaply that the police can hang

on to until they're thru investigating. Today, finding an under $300 used Smith police trade in is

getting much harder to find as many shooters are discovering that police trade-ins have holster wear

and not too much actual shooting. Carried a lot and rarely shot.

Best thing about a revolver is that it can be stored loaded for long periods of time.

A semi can't really be left for long periods without my worrying about magazine spring tension.

I will always have that nagging doubt of it weakening.

Well said sir, i'm afraid some members might disagree with you but I , at least, cannot fault your reasoning. Good to know you found yourself a good woman too! My compliments to the lady! In my book a woman who doesn't turn her nose up at the mere mention of firearms is a treasure indeed. I happen to have an opinion on the subject of arming the women and I presume the previlege of sharing my thoughts on the same. i belive we should arm all women and disarm all the men to make this world a safer and saner place.

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

Slightly OT

Raptor, Thank You for the complement about the Wife.

That is just One of several reasons Why I married her.

We are friends with several other similar women.

I've posted this by Massad Ayoob before

http://personal.palouse.net/joeh/pages/Aptitude.htm

You can guess where my Wife and her friends end up after taking the test.

In case of a Crisis, I know I can trust my Wife to watch my Back.

[Glock 25]

(I know fully well that we are not going to get it in India,except in certain circumstances like TR.But, that should not stop us from learning about the good stuff around.)

This bad boy packs an eight round cylinder and chambered for .357 Magnum.

The S&W 327

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... rrorView_Y

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Review:

http://www.humanevents.com/2010/12/14/s ... nd-wonder/

The unique aesthetics of the S&W Performance Center’s Model 327 revolver immediately attract attention on dealers’ shelves. It shocks the visual senses. First, the large-frame chassis combines with two-inch barrel sports Cocobolo wood round butt finger groove grips from Ahrends. To give the reader a sense of scale, the frame is derived from the Model 29 .44 Magnum N-frame. The oversized titanium cylinder holding eight rounds of .357 Magnum is another clue that something out of the ordinary is going on. The proprietary S&W barrel lock nut, which mates the stainless steel barrel insert to barrel shroud, is another anomaly. Finally, the combination of three different manufacturing materials–alloy frame, stainless steel barrel, and titanium cylinder and barrel shroud–confirms that the Model 327 is not your ordinary revolver.

Comparing the Model 327 to snubby revolvers is inevitable, but misplaced in my opinion. The Model 327 is certainly not going to fit in your front pants pocket, and should not be thought of as a snubby on steroids. The S&W 327 is a primary concealed carry handgun, not a backup weapon.

In choosing a carry handgun, practitioners must consider size, weight, capacity, and cartridge potency. The one trait that can not be compromised is reliability. Revolver aficionados always lay claim to reliability as a hallmark feature. With the eight-shot .357 Magnum Model 327, revolver lovers have a weapon featuring the same capacity as the legendary 1911 pistol. In a nutshell, some individuals are just more comfortable carrying a revolver. This can be based on several threads of reasoning: prior training and familiarity with revolvers, inherent reliability and simplicity compared to semi-automatics, no external controls necessary to get a revolver into action, ability to better manage trigger control with a double-action revolver, and greater physical requirements of operating an automatic’s slide compared to a revolver’s operations. The S&W Model 327 magnifies all of the revolver’s positive traits and minimizes revolver weaknesses such as capacity and size.

The S&W Model 327′s eight-round capacity gives a 33 percent increase in firepower over six-holed revolver cylinders. The .357 Magnum cartridge represents the near-perfect combination of controllability, power, accuracy, and lethality in a pistol cartridge. I challenge the reader to add up the foot pounds (ft/lbs) of energy stored in the Model 327′s cylinder and compare it to the number of 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP rounds required to equal that amount of energy. Eight, 125-gr .357 Magnum rounds combine for 4,992 ft/lbs of energy. To equal this you need 15 rounds of 9mm, 11 rounds of .40 S&W, and 13 rounds of .45 ACP. This is not a scientific study, but I think it gets my point across.

The inclusion of moon clips with the Model 327 shows the S&W Performance Center’s attention to detail. The ability to use either moon clips or regular loading methods is a feature reserved for high end pistolsmith work. The moon clips greatly reduce reload times and make it more convenient to carry extra ammunition. Other S&W Performance Center tweaks found in the Model 327 include the Lothar-Walther custom barrel featuring polished button rifling. The custom barrel is secured inside the titanium barrel shroud by a special lock nut system used by S&W. A Wolff mainspring and traditional sear ensure a smooth double action trigger.

The single action trigger measured a crisp 3.5 lbs with no creep, using a RCBS trigger gauge. Range testing utilized Black Hills Ammunition, Winchester, Hornady, and Federal ammunition. Both .38 Special and .357 Magnum loads were used with bullet weights of 125 gr, 140 gr, and 158 gr loads. A huge benefit for anyone who carries a .357 Magnum revolver is the ability to practice with .38 Special loads; they are more economical and not as harsh in terms of recoil and muzzle blast as the magnum loads. The importance of this is not something to be underestimated. I practice with .38 Special rounds when I want to work on shooting fundamentals without wrestling with the .357′s full power recoil and muzzle blast. Practice with .38 Special ammunition aids in building confidence, and exposes recoil-induced bad habits.

My two adolescent sons had no problems controlling the 21 ounce Model 327 when firing .38 Special loads. The large-frame grip size deserves much of the credit for this. Full power .357 Magnum loads proved problematic and uncomfortable for them. The two-inch barreled Model 327 does cause quite a stir when shooting .357 Magnum loads, with the 125 gr varieties seemingly producing more muzzle flash and blast than the heavier bullet loads. I found the two inch barrel more than adequate for a personal defense revolver. A longer barrel would only have diminishing returns by increasing weight and complicating concealability without contributing much more to the potency of the weapon.

Range evaluation consisted of a test regimen of engaging multiple steel and paper targets, firing while moving, reloading from cover, and engaging targets from behind barricades. The moon clips proved a definite advantage in reloading during these scenarios. I did not bench rest the S&W Model 327, as I feel this is worthless information for a handgun with a two inch barrel. The Model 327 with its fixed rear sight and red front ramp proved more than capable of ringing steel targets 25 yards away. In fact, when having the time to deliberately aim and fire, steel man targets more than 100 yards away were not safe. That is more than enough accuracy for a personal defense handgun. One quirk I discovered with the S&W Model 327 is that empties did not fall free from the cylinder no matter how hard the ejector rod is struck. Close scrutiny determined that the ejector rod could not have been made any longer to remedy the problem. I do not want to make too big of a deal of this, because a quick swipe of the hand dropped the cases free before sliding in another eights rounds via moon clip.

Another side note to my range experience is that after thousands of rounds fired through automatic handguns, I quickly relearned that revolvers require a slightly different firing grip. Thumbs ahead do not work well next to a revolver’s cylinder. Thumbs need to be curled inward toward the frame. This lesson was learned early in nearly 500 rounds fired during numerous range visits.
The S&W Model 327 is a viable personal defense handgun that levels the playing field between revolvers and semi-automatic handguns. The Model 327 is no small snubby and should be thought of as an equal to the 1911 and high capacity polymer handguns. Some will not abandon the classic 1911, while others will not forego the high capacity polymer frames. As with most things related to firearms, handgun selection is a personal decision often based more on intuition than fact based reasoning. Eight rounds of .357 Magnum in a reasonably sized, light weight, reliable package will bring many handgunners back to the revolver fold. It is a viable concealed carry firearm for people looking for something more than a small .38 Special revolver, and something less complicated than a large semi-auto pistol.

Thanks for info

[Grumpy]

Spot on Doc.
This is a huge snubby and definitely NOT a compact revolver !